Donklephant’s First Open Thread

Donklephant’s First Open Thread


Talk about the site. Talk about politics.

The point is to just talk!

  • Luke

    I rather wish the middle got as much attention as the wing nuts!!!

    Donklephant fills a void… Keep it up!

    Now, onto politics… Would someone explain to me why so many of the right refuse to push Bush to take responsibility for his actions, and why the so many on the left refuse to contemplate the disaster that would occur should we withdrawal our troops completely from Iraq right now?

  • Rigel

    So why in the world would the adminstration signal they have a comprehensive escape plan that looks a lot like the one floated by Senetor Biden (, after holding the hard line for so long. Does this signal a change in priorites for the adminstration? Are we really preparing to cut and run?

  • Rigel

    Also, the post “A Topless Kate Moss And I Have A Brief, Fake Conversation” was hillarious

  • Callimachus

    Would someone explain to me why so many of the right refuse to push Bush to take responsibility for his actions

    I’ll take a stab at that, though I can hardly claim to speak for the right or anyone but myself. But I’ve been thinking about that.

    Any sane observer can see that the Bush Administration has been one boondoggle after another. The president and his inner circle are excellent at winning a fight, but not at making a policy or charting a course. They too often are willing to juggle partisan advantage and national interest. Their communications are abyssmal, and when things get tough, the instinct is to run back to the base, which is more divisive than a war president should be. Cheney is an outright embarrassment. I have no argument against the assessment of this as the worst U.S. administration since Franklin Pierce.

    There, happy?

    Does that make you feel better? Good. What other good does it do? Does it solve anyone’s problems? Does it make the administration more functional, or does it just give you another tally in the column of “Bush supporters leaving the sinking ship.” Does it weaken international terrorism and strengthen Iraq? And I’m sure that makes some political hay for Democrats in 2008, but we’re not there yet. We have to survive another three years.

    By “take responsibility” I’m reading you to mean “admit mistakes” (which was how the question was phrased during the ’04 debates). And I just don’t see what good that does now.

    The Bush refusal to confess even obvious mistakes is a minor irritant to me. It seems to enrage the people who already hate Bush, but then where’s his incentive? His supporters don’t mind that much, and doing what his enemies want only would satisfy his enemies.

    I don’t want a president to be a serial apologizer, even if he is a fuck-up. I didn’t vote for Bush in 2000. When 9/11 erupted, I figured his pig-headedness and ability to stick to a simple vision without being distracted could be beneficial qualities in a wartime leader. I may have been wrong in judging him, but I don’t see a tearful apoloigist in the White House as a big advantage over what we’ve got now.

    You might forget it because of the outcome, but World War II was a series of boondoggles too — awful planning (Tarawa), inadequate equipment (Tunesia), civilians slaughtered needlessly (Cologne, Tokyo), unconstitutional behavior (internment camps), race riots (Detroit) — more Americans killed by friendly fire in a few weeks in Normandy than have been killed in toto in the entire Iraq war. FDR could have gone on the radio every week and spoken to America for an hour about the mistakes his administration had made.

    Would that have been better?

  • shaunomac

    With the Cunningham scandal and more expected how can we convince young people to register to vote?? On my program Tuesday night I said one of my main issues is getting young people to vote. But when they see all these scandals they want nothing to do with electing crooks.

    There must be someone out there who will stand up and say enough and campaign on the issues that we care about and to vow to eliminate all of this soft money and lobbying in Washington.

    McCain?? Dont know. Powell?? maybe but he will never run for President. Mark Warner?? He is very popular in his home state of Virginia and governed as a moderate and has millions of his own money. Hillary? she would never take a stand like that. Giuliani? not sure at all.

  • lgude

    After watching America make the same mistakes over and over for years in Vietnam I have been impressed with the many mid course corrections that have occurred in Iraq. By the end of 2003 it was obvious that they had an insurgency on their hands and the Administration managed to have an interim government in six months. It has been obvious to anyone who takes the trouble to read Iraqi and milbolgs that the US has been pursuing a policy of Iraqization ever since, and that the Iraqi troops have just been coming on line in serious and effective numbers. On his return from Iraq recently Joe Lieberman made this point very strongly.

    ….the plan has not remained stubbornly still but has changed over the years. Mistakes, some of them big, were made after Saddam was removed, and no one who supports the war should hesitate to admit that; but we have learned from those mistakes and, in characteristic American fashion, from what has worked and not worked on the ground. The administration’s recent use of the banner “clear, hold and build” accurately describes the strategy as I saw it being implemented last week.

    The whole thing is at:

  • Joshua

    Ya know, there’s a difference between not harboring any loyalty toward either major party and being a centrist. I wonder, are all of us really centrists or just part of the “Long Tail” of American politics? (Great observation, albeit a few months old, by Arnold Kling at Tech Central Station.)

  • kreiz

    Cal- don’t forget the overwhelming success of our biggest presidential apologist, Jimmy Carter. You will recall the resounding endorsement he received for candidly admitting his shortcomings.

  • ford4x4

    On the issue of getting the young people out to vote…

    Mayor Kwame Kilpratrick (Detroit) was recently re-elected. His administration has been one scandal after another, and his city is on the brink of receivership.
    Six months ago, it appeared he was going to lose in a landslide. Since he is “young” by mayoral standards (early 30’s), the young people of the city unexpectedly came out and voted for him in droves. Apparently, most of them did not cast informed votes. So where is the benefit in getting the young out to vote?