“You Lie!” Or I Told You So

“You Lie!” Or I Told You So


In a post about excerpts of Obama’s health care speech released earlier today I predicted the following…

Republicans who don’t want health care reform to pass will be out in full force filling the airwaves with disinfo. That’s nothing new, but this time they’ll be desperate because this speech will be positioned as a game changer and they’ll most likely overreach in some embarrassingly stupid way.

I didn’t think it would happen during the speech, but Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina made it so…

Dems were understandably upset, but John McCain came out in force…

House Democratic Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) called Wilson’s outburst “embarrassing,” while McCain said it was “totally disrespectful” and that there was “no place for it in that setting or any other.”

McCain said Wilson “should apologize for it immediately.”

Wilson has since called the White House and apologized.

I don’t use the “I Told You So” category often, but there’s a time and a place for everything.

And so it goes…

  • Jimmy the Dhimmi

    Certainly this was a garish outburst that should be whole-heartedly condemned, but from a political perspective, what is everyone talking asbout this morning? Are they talking about the details of Obama’s speech or is this unknown congressman from some podunk district getting all the press? He stole the show and made “You Lie” the big news story. The AP’s headline today is, “The Night’s Defining Moment.” Indeed. What interview do you want to hear next? Another Obama parroting over and over again how the time to act is now, or Joe Wilson?

    Oh, and according to Fact-Check.org Joe Wilson is right, because Health-insurance exchanges which direct poor people into subsidized insurance plans do not have a citizenship requirement, so you can be sure that illegal imigrants will get coverage. Apparently, there were attempts to add citizenship enforcement mechanisms to the bill, but they were defeated by Democrats in comittee.

    It was over-reaching and an embarrasment, but it wasn’t disinformation. The actual disinformation came from Obama’s mouth.

  • the Word


    Your last paragraph is just wrong.

    FactCheck says the opposite of what you are saying but I wouldn’t let facts deter your spin. The most charitable way of looking at it is that there is a disagreement on how effectively illegal aliens will be prohibited from getting care. The bill does EXPLICITLY say they will not be covered.

    I guess in your world speeding laws would be said to “Allow millions of speeders on the road” since there is no way to catch everyone and you’d say it was a lie that speeding is against the law. Not a very productive way to solve problems. It’s time to ignore the Republicans as the irrelevant and fundamentally dishonest people in the room. They did nothing, want to do nothing and the only bill they would sign is no bill whatsoever so kick them to the curb.

  • Pug

    The Word is correct. The bill does explicitly exclude illegal aliens. They just don’t tell Jimmy things like that on Fox News. In fact, they tell him just the opposite and he believes them.

    It’s in Section 246:


    4 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
    5 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
    6 not lawfully present in the United States.

    Fundamentally dishonest people in the room, indeed.

  • Chris

    Ah mock outrage, you are so convincing.

  • Jimmy the Dhimmi

    The lie that fact-check debunked regarding immigrants is this one:

    All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

    Who is saying that? What does that have to do with enforcing a citizenship requirement? I guess if you come to find out that someone is an illegal alien recieving subsidised health care, you might have a case. The point is there is no citizenship requirement to participate in the Health Insurance exchange; there is no way of verifying that an illegal immigrant has signed up for it.

    From the Congressional Research service Report on HR3200:

    Under H.R. 3200, a “Health Insurance Exchange” would begin operation in 2013 and would offerprivate plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would not be an insurer; it would provide eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ plans, including the public option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare and generally Medicaid). H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently participating in the Exchange. However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens would be required to have health insurance.

    So you are right Chris and Word and Pug, HR 3200 does not mandate all illegal aliens to buy insurance. Nor does it provide subsidized insurance to all illegal immigrants. That’s not what I am saying and that is not the source of Obama’s dishonesty. HR 3200 is a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy, and you can be rest assured that there will be illegal immigrants covered by Obama care.

  • Mike A.

    Aren’t you discussing immigration reform rather than health care reform? Doesn’t this type of loop hole permeate all systems of our society because of our lack of proper immigration policy and controls? Isn’t the proper action to address the root cause of this issue rather than bandaid all laws to work around it?

  • Trescml

    Actually I think this has been good for the Republicans. I has taken the debate from “How should we deal with health care?” to “Look at the super moron.” This has been the basic tactic for the Republicans so far and it is working well. The only way to stop it is to start defeating the people doing it, but I somehow doubt Rep. Wilson or Rep. Bachmann are going down to defeat any time soon.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Yes Jimmy, people lie and are able to get federal services.

    Your point?

  • http://detroitskeptic.com/blogs Nick Benjamin

    Just ignore him on this issue.

    By talking about checks for immigration status he’s re-defined his argument into meaningless gibberish.

    Note to Jimmy:
    There are exactly zero proofs of citizenship that work in the US. Immigration status from the INS could be helpful, but the INS is so bad at paperwork that they deport US Citizens.

    So unless you’re gonna create a mandatory national ID card, and reform the INS, your “requirement” amounts to de facto discrimination against naturalized citizens, green-card holders, and natural-born citizens who don’t still live their mothers.

  • LantermanC

    I don’t necessarily agree with Wilson’s outburst, but I don’t see what the fuss is about. If he truly believed that Obama was deceiving the public, then in his mind he did the right thing. Sure he could have made a point about it later, but it certainly would not have received nearly the attention it is now.

    If some congressman had done the same thing when Bush was talking about WMD, I’m not sure there would be the same backlash.

  • Jimmy the Dhimmi

    Yes Jimmy, people lie and are able to get federal services.

    Your point?

    I thought the whole point of Obama’s healtch care initiative was to wave his hand and eliminate fraud and waste in the system in order to control costs. People are obviously concerned about illegal immigrants having access to subsidized health insurance otherwise Obama wouldn’t have addressed the issue so forcefully.

    Would not potentially millions of illegal aliens signing up for subsidized health care be considered fraud? It seems, at least according to Obama’s tone last night, that it would. So why tolerate it? Illegal immigration itself is one big loophole and people are sick of the goverment doing nothing to stop it.

    Obama can promise to veto any bill that does not have a citizenship requirement on the application for the public option, or for the health-exchange services – a simple and easily enforceable provision that people want(come on Nick, a resident alien showing his green card is discrimination?). Anything less would be tacit approval of illegal immigrants gaming the system.

  • blackoutyears

    Yep, no difference between *this bill will knowingly provide coverage for illegal aliens* and *illegal aliens may exploit the system*. Until the people making these claims against the bill draw that distinction they’re effectively lying. You’re defending liars, Jimmy. But that’s what slaves to party, any party, do.

  • Chris

    The republicans want, in no way, shape, or form, to end illegal immigration. So to hear them complain about it is frickin hilarious.

  • http://centristcoalition.com/blog/ kranky kritter

    Proposed reforms wouldn’t change anything substantial with regard to illegal immigrants and healthcare. They already get it for free like lots of other poor folks, built into the costs the rest pay. Subsidized in a complicated and indeed baroque fashion.

    But it seems fair to pnt out hte truth that suggested reforms would do nothing to actually and in fact prevent illegal immigrants from getting free gov’t subsidized care. I am comfortable assuming that a substantial majority of Americans does not want to provide subsidized or free healthcare to illegal immigrants. I assume further that the same substantial majority would be comfortable requiring a citizenship check for services.

    Neither party really supports a legitimate crackdown on illegal immigrants, whether it comes to healthcare or unskilled jobs or much of anything else. But I think that if you put the question of checking citizenship for healthcare, school, and other public services to a “sense of the nation” referendum, about 55% to 60% of Americans would support it.

    I’d like to see some of our leaders encourage the idea of “sense of the nation” referendums or questionaires.

  • http://detroitskeptic.com/blogs Nick Benjamin

    Obama can promise to veto any bill that does not have a citizenship requirement on the application for the public option, or for the health-exchange services – a simple and easily enforceable provision that people want(come on Nick, a resident alien showing his green card is discrimination?). Anything less would be tacit approval of illegal immigrants gaming the system.

    You’d be surprised at the number of people with American accents, SS numbers, who went to elementary school in the US, and think they’re citizens; who later find out that a) mom sucked at paperwork, b) the INS didn’t notice, and c) Immigration Court is a bitch. Or folks who ask an actual INS agent whether they are allowed to take a day trip to Canada, get a positive answer, and be declared illegal immigrants when they try to come back.

    You can trust that agency to keep Green Cards straight if you want. You’re Conservative, they’re cops, you’re supposed to trust them even when they’re full of it. Folks who have to deal with them? Not so much.

  • http://www.warning1938alert.ytmnd.com Jimmy the Dhimmi

    UPDATE: Joe Wilson wins, according to Politico. Apparently, the gaping loophole that allowed for illegal immigrants to acquire subsidized health insurance has just been closed. You know, the loophole that commenters above claimed either didn’t exist, or wasn’t relevant.

    Nick, you must be outraged. Don’t the democrats understand that distinguishing illegal immigrants from legal residents is just too complicated?

  • Mike A.

    I don’t disagree with the result….but should the process be one in which leaders are disrespectful to other leaders? Isn’t that the basis of this argument?

    And shouldn’t your title be “Wilson wins?” not “Wilson wins” ? There is a difference……

  • http://detroitskeptic.com/blogs Nick Benjamin


    Did you read the article? Do you have any understanding of the Legislative process?

    What happened was several Senators told the press they intended to change the Senate Finance Committee’s version of the bill because they thought it’s anti-illegal immigration language was not strong enough. HB 3200 is in the US House, not the Senate. They are not the same thing.

    That little Civics Lesson was free. I’ll have to charge you for the next one.

  • the Word

    Got to agree with Nick. Comprehension is important. What occurred is that once again some on the “Left” have pandered to the stupid, thus again guaranteeing that they remain in charge of the debate. Doesn’t mean in any way that Wilson or Republicans were right. Why are we listening to the dumbest among us???????

  • rob

    FWIW this is what some were griping about in committee.

    They wanted to have it enforced under the SAVE program (link) but the democrats killed that.

    Why wouldn’t they want it enforced under a federal program that is used to verify citizenship for more than 70 other entitlement programs?