Is Blu-ray camp afraid of HD DVD’s price point?
Blu-ray has demonstrated nimble marketing tactics numerous times, but eventually every buyer’s question becomes “how much does it cost?”
Though no stranger to snappy marketing tactics, HD DVD has found itself outmaneuvered by Blu-ray’s slick integration with the PS3 and possible pocket-lining deals that brought in exclusivity agreements with studios.
So, HD DVD has decided to bring the competition back to the basics: price. That begs the question, with Toshiba’s HD-A3 selling for well under $150 (not an affiliate link) why is Blu-ray willing to keep its cheapest player just under $317 (not an affiliate link)?
Opinions vary widely, but the real consideration for consumers is whether or not Blu-ray can deliver roughly 2x the value.
Here are a few points for comparison:
| Feature | HD DVD | Blu-ray | Difference |
|---|---|---|---|
| Single Layer Disc | 15gb | 25gb | 40% more value |
| Dual Layer Disc | 30gb | 50gb | 40% more value |
| Titles available on Amazon.com as of 2/8/2008 | 563 | 655 | 16% more value |
| Blank Single Layer Disc Price | $10.74 | $20.29 | 90% less value |
| Blank Dual Layer Disc Price | n/a (if anyone can find a price please let me know) | $48.67 | n/a |
| Average: 1.5% more value for Blu-ray | |||
| Average minus blank disc prices: 32% more value for Blu-ray |
Now, the column that’s missing here is weight because each person will scale the model differently for each feature. There are also intangibles like convenience provided by already owning a PS3 or Xbox 360. There may also be some technical features that would alter the analysis.
But, based on the variables above, Blu-ray’s price is too high for its current value proposition. Its players realize though that cutting prices now would lead to a profit-gouging precedent. Blu-ray is certainly interested in maximizing its profit per product sold and HD DVD is now directly threatening that margin.
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February 8th, 2008
Can’t imagine why Blu-Ray would care. They’re crushing HD-DVD in software sales, hardware need not even be mentioned really. But, if you do, hardware sales are still demonstrably in BR’s favor. Let HD-DVD cut their prices all they want. Only going to help the companies supporting it, lose that much more money and be forced to abandon a failed format that much quicker.
Morne
February 8th, 2008
Intertesting read, but what’s your point? Buying a Hi-density DVD data drive? What about the actual average content size of a Blu-ray video disc?
No mentioning of the almost identical picture and sound quality between the formats. So this article is just intended to be another coffin nail for the HD-DVD format?
HD-DVD should die because WB quit supporting it. And creative artists start to attack on the format at every possible angle.
Thanks for your effort in ending the format war. There is nothing better than a biased article that helps beating a horse to death. We just need more articles like this one. Good Job.
February 8th, 2008
people have complained on many pages about toshiba not telling customers about the studios blu ray stance
yet i bet no complaints will be made by the fact that a big price drop on sonys standalone players that will be virtually useless as there still 1.1 specs
February 8th, 2008
poorly written article.
February 8th, 2008
I was wondering what the point of this was also. A year ago this might have been an interesting discussion but HD-DVD probably wont exist next year so what the fuck is the point of this?
I wish the people who run these sites would take a bit of responsibility and stop trying to make HD-DVD seem less dead than it is.
February 8th, 2008
HD-DVD isn’t close to dead my friend… I have both formats (I have a ps3 as well) and love the deals I can get on hd-dvd movies… far better pricing than blu-ray. My hd-dvd player also does a better job up-converting than my ps3. It’s funny how many blu-rayers wish the hd-dvd war was over but the truth is this war is helping bring down prices on both fronts. HD-dvd is just a better value right now. But if getting angry about it helps you feel better then go right ahead. I am going to go watch shooter on hd-dvd and then resident evil on blu-ray.
February 8th, 2008
HD-DVD isn’t close to dead my friend… I have both formats (I have a ps3 as well) and love the deals I can get on hd-dvd movies… far better pricing than blu-ray. My hd-dvd player also does a better job up-converting than my ps3. It’s funny how many blu-rayers wish the hd-dvd war was over but the truth is this war is helping bring down prices on both fronts. HD-dvd is just a better value right now. But if getting angry about it helps you feel better then go right ahead. I am going to go watch shooter on hd-dvd and then resident evil on blu-ray.
February 8th, 2008
I have to laugh at the desperate claims from the Blu-ray side that this is all over before it has even really begun.
Of course if the Blu-ray aim is a captive niche market to gouge at will then I suppose the PS3 guys will fit the bill.
They sure as hell are nowhere near engaging nevermind convincing the far larger and totally uninterested a/v market which is quite happy with HD TV services & DVRs and upscaling SD DVD.
Only HD DVD can get cheap enough fast enough to genuinely be ‘the next DVD’ – and only then because thanks to the Twin discs and to a lesser extent combo discs no-one will get left behind in the change to high def.
Blu-ray can never do this.
BTW here are some blank DL HD DVD links & prices.
5 x 30gb Verbatim DL HD DVD in jewel cases for £42.99
http://svp.co.uk/product/verbatim_30gb_double_layer_hd_dvd_r_(jewel_cased)_3724_x5
5 x 30gb Verbatim DL HD DVD in jewel cases for €59.50
http://www2.computeruniverse.net/urlmapper2.asp?mapurl=/products/90229572.asp&agent=288&urlmapped=true
February 8th, 2008
All studios should be format neutral……and HD DVD would have won this months ago if that were the case.
So much for the back-handers, double-crosses, lies and attempts to rig the market under the laughable cover of ‘the consumer deciding’.
That was a really funny one, Warner.
February 9th, 2008
They need a sale on Blu-ray players to get rid of HD DVD once and for all, and then the prices go back to normal, without upsetting anyone about prices going back up.
Seriously, the BDA need to do more to take advantage of their strong lead.
February 9th, 2008
Indeed for $129.00 (US), HD-DVD Toshiba A3 is a really great value. The upscaling of standard DVD is REALLY good, better (when compared side by side) than my old Sony NS75H. The upscaling quality compares well with an Oppo DVD player selling for $169.00. So for $129.00 you get a great DVD upscaling player with HD-DVD feature thrown in for “free”. If HD-DVD keeps going, we can expect HD-DVD players to hit $99.00 again (maybe permanently) by X-mas.
February 9th, 2008
HDDVD IS DEAD.According to NPD:The fact is that despite aggressive price promotions on HD DVD players from Toshiba, sales of Blu-ray Disc players continued to outsell HD DVD units by a wide margin through the week ending January 26. Dedicated Blu-ray Disc player sales, which omit video game consoles, represented 65 percent of unit volume share during the period and HD DVD players accounted for 28 percent.Keep crying HDDVD fanboys
February 9th, 2008
@DaveBG, so you are saying that if studios were format neutral, then HDDVD would have won months ago? Hmm, thats strange, because months ago most studios were format neutral and not once on any film released on both formats did HDDVD outsell Blu Ray, so I fail to see your logic, In fact I think you’ve been under a rock for months.
February 9th, 2008
Blu-ray is thumping HD-DVD from US to Japan despite its so-called expensive price point. If Blu-ray is even slightly concerned, they are more than capable of fighting the price war. But they don’t have to. Blu-ray can just watch desperate Toshiba give away HD-DVD players for $50 at gas stations and still dominate on sales comfortably. Blu-ray prices will come down naturally and that will be the last straw for HD-DVD.
February 9th, 2008
Lots of bad news for HD-DVD lately.
“Toshiba, whose products range from washing machines to nuclear power plants, is also fighting losses in its HD DVD player business, he (Executive Vice President Fumio Muraoka) said, without detailing the size of the loss.” Reuters Jan 29, 2008
- FS Films goes Blu-ray exclusive
- Kaleidescape goes Blu-ray exclusive
- Saturn (Largest German electronics retailer) goes Blu-ray exclusive
02-07-08 SF Films (Sweden) Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
02-07-08 Scanbox (Sweden) Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
02-07-08 Filmax Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
02-04-08 BAC Films (France) Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
02-04-08 Manga Films Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
02-01-08 ADV Films Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
01-31-08 Highlight Video (Germany) Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
01-30-08 National Geographic Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
01-30-08 EMI (Japan) Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
01-30-08 Sonic Solutions Scenarist Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
01-28-08 Woolworths Retail Outlet (UK) goes Blu-ray exclusive in store.
01-22-08 Grant’s Appliances to go Blu-ray exclusive in 2008.
01-16-08 Senator Entertainment to go Blu-ray exclusive in 2008.
01-16-08 Digital Playground to go Blu-ray exclusive in 2008.
01-11-08 Constantin Film goes Blu-ray exclusive.
01-10-08 HBO goes Blu-ray exclusive.
01-05-08 New Line goes Blu-ray exclusive.
01-04-08 Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive.
February 9th, 2008
The really funny part to this the Blu-ray fans won’t accept is that NPD came out and explained their (unusually leaked, yeah right) numbers.
The big rise in Blu-ray ’sales’ were freebie profile 1.0 players given away with 3 brands of HD TV.
So not really ’sales’ at all.
Not surprisingly HD DVD hardware sales took a dive in the week after the Warner stab in the back.
But the next week they were recovering strongly after the price cut (as we can see from the Amazon stats – which were not included).
They recovered so strongly that the (funny & highly unusual weekly) NPD leaks stopped dead.
Funny that one, eh?
Blu-ray is still stuck in the PS3 niche and about as far away from the real & genuine a/v mass-market as can be.
That’s pretty funny considering all their boasting.
Big deal.
…..and yes, if all movie studios released on both formats HD DVD would have won this over a year ago.
That’s why Sony & the BDA have been paying off various studios to go Blu-ray exclusive in the first place.
It’s an anti-consumer racket, a rigged market.
If we had public legislatures with any guts they’d investigate this obvious con on the public.
The public decided nothing in this, green-backs in private side deals did the real deciding.
Wake up.
February 10th, 2008
h dvd R.I.P.
Sony won get over it.
February 10th, 2008
You guys are all a bunch of nunchuck fanboys on both sides of the blu-ray, hd-dvd war. Who cares about this fight. Enjoy the format you have!!! I do!!! No need to fight, this will be over hopefully by next year. It doesn’t matter what side any of you think is better. They are both good.
And on a second note DaveBG is a loser you may have some good points, but all those go to hell when you post stuff that has no facts and can’t be proven. War won by “Green backs” this statement has no value as no one can prove it. Rumors are Rumors tell proven retard. That same statement has been said about both sides and has never be proven. If you do want to fight like a bunch of children at least use true statements and give the source otherwise shut up. That goes for everyone.
February 10th, 2008
Oh ya and amazon is not a good source for stats as they do not post how many units were sold. At least last time I checked the website they didn’t. Amazon is one store, amazon does not account for all of North Americas sales last time I checked. It is better to use whole market values not just one or two places. And if NDP is used to get the data to prove a point make sure those are real numbers as well and accurate.
February 10th, 2008
DaveBG:
You should use Johnson & Johnson’s Shampoo “no more tears”. That would make it easier to cope with the loss of HD-DVD (as if anyone cared?).
Anyway, the even FUNNIER thing is your assertion of “If every studio supported HD-DVD and Blu-ray, HD-DVD would have won already”. Boo-hoo, I hate sore losers. You know, if Sony had as much money as a rich country’s GDP, then the PS3 would have been 299 at launch. Hell, if I was that rich, I would give players and movies away. Hell, if I was THAT rich, we’d be living in Mars already!
The best part is that there is no proof for whatever you’re saying. You have the HD-DVD name so far up your ass (or is it Sony hate?) that you lack the ability to produce some semblance of independent thought. Make us all a favor, cleasing the world by killing your probably retarded offspring, and then yourself.
“Warner stab in the back” hahahaha, get the hell outta here.
February 10th, 2008
The most important feature is not listed among your few points for comparison, CONTENT. Blu-ray: Warner, Sony, Disney, Fox, Lionsgate to HD DVD: Universal and Paramount. 5-2. Seems Blu-ray’s price is too low for its current value proposition or HD DVD’s is too high.
February 10th, 2008
To DaveBG: with all do respect, you are full of poo.
HDDVD is dead and we are all better off and happy because of it. Backwards people like you are what most ordinary people do not want. Because you bought a payer and 30 movies you are holding on to fluff so please get over it. The format war is not starting, it is OVER. Fool………..
February 10th, 2008
Wake up, hehe, yoo are one blatantly stupid consumer.
Seriously, if you had done any studying, any at all, if if if if, you knew anything about the gaming market which IS BIGGER THAN THE MOVIE MARKET, you wouldn’t be spouting the inane **** that you are. Payed off, yeah, as if a corporate product has anything to do with the consumer besides sales. They can do whatever the **** they want with their products. THE MAIN THING, the thing you so cleverly RUN past is that HDDVD is the most annoying name for a product ever and why are we not debating 30GB vs. 50GB moron?
Transformers without HD audio is DVD quality.
February 10th, 2008
All I can say is anyone who’s buying HD-DVD are morons… a couple price drops within a couple of months on HD-DVD players and yet still being outsold by Blu-ray? Tha’ts pathetic. This is a desperate attempt by the HD-DVD group because they know they’re becoming obsolete soon. Lets say for a miracle, HD-DVD pulls it off, no manufaturer is going to support HD-DVD cuz Toshiba is losing money on each player they sell, but hell they don’t care they own the HD-DVD format. Onkyo was pissed at Toshiba’s price drop, they cancelled their HD-DVD product. And yes even though it’s cheap to buy HD-DVD movies and players, what use when after a few years your player dies out, you won’t be able to buy a HD-DVD player anywhere unless someone is selling it and who knows how many would be available at the time.
bottom line is: Blu-ray is going to win, I own both formats and I’ve had more issues with HD-DVD then with Blu-ray. Mainly with unreadable disc, this would not be a problem on Blu-ray due to their disc are scratch-resistant. I’m glad the better technology won, more space which means higher bandwidth for video and lossless audio, better interactivity (BD-Java is better the HDi) and you don’t have to worry about your disc getting all scratched up and being unplayable.
February 10th, 2008
You’re all desperately avoiding the point of the story here.
HD DVD hardware sales have recovered strongly.
Blu-ray is still stuck in the kids game console niche.
Shame you PS3 fanboys can’t/won’t accept this.
(and no the gaming market does not have the numbers on the true general a/v mass-market; don’t be so f**king stupid.
How many games consoles do you mum & dad and your grandparents have eh?)
February 10th, 2008
At this point in time, both HD media markets are very small (less than 1000 titles for each side), compared to 90,000 titles on DVD. It will be a very LONG time before any HD media replaces DVD. So enjoy your format of choice, there are good movies on both sides and that’s a fact.
BTW “name calling” is not going to help win over people. No need to call someone an idiot if all they wanna do is enjoy movies, regardless of format. You should be thankful this competition has forced prices to come down faster than when DVD started.
February 10th, 2008
HD-DVD is currently serving a market for people with families or with limited income spending. So these people get what they can afford. Tell me this, assuming you have limited income (150bucks), and want to wet your feet with HD media. Is spending $169.00 on an Oppo upscaling player or $129.00 for an upscaling player with HD-DVD feature “free” a better deal?
February 10th, 2008
Don’t forget the 5, 7 or even 10 freebie movies some HD DVD player deals include.
BTW I see the HD A20 is being discounted to under $120.
Amazing value for a great 1080/24 player which also upscales & plays SD DVD very very well.
(…….and the only reason some of the console kids can make claims about the high $ ‘value’ of the gaming sector is not because they are out in huge numbers but because they are the ones constantly being gouged @ $60+ a time for the latest games.)
February 10th, 2008
@Dave BG
Right hardware sales are up? So then shouldn’t the software disc sales rise as well? If not then it’s nothing more than a glorified upconverted DVD player.
Also, you seem to think that it would have made a difference if Warner did stay, but, seriously what reason did they have too? Look at one of their top movies last year 300. The HD DVD had exclusive extra’s yet it still was outsold 3:1. They also have exclusive Matrix DVD’s did it sell well? NOPE.
As someone else point out there has NEVER been a single HD-DVD/Blu Ray release of a movie that HD outsold the Blu Ray. The ONE, yeah, that’s right one exception was Planet Earth and that’s NOT a movie even. That’s right from the sources. Don’t believe it? Go google it and read it from Warner bros. themselves.
Also, yeah, don’t make fun of PS3 fanboys because they weren’t included in hardware sales by HD DVD camp purposely. And like I said before hardware sales don’t mean shit if the HD DVD sales aren’t there to begin with. HD DVD claims that there’s more disc sales from their players then Blu Ray well not according to the worldwide sales where every region Blu Ray beats HD DVD.
Also those gamers you make fun of are also more tech savvy so uh yeah they helped to choose the winner.
February 10th, 2008
DL HD DVD-R 30GB
http://www.beachaudio.com/Smartdisk/95531-p-125615.html?utm_campaign=froogle&utm_content=AD_ID&utm_term=95531&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=froogle>KW=95531&GCID=C12585×003
$21.99 (US)
As for all this jabber about HD DVD vs Blu-ray and which one is dead and which one is not, think about this, if HD DVD dies, HD will follow soon after, with a starting pricing point of around $350-400 at retail prices Blu-ray has no chance in hell of beating the pricing of up-converters, which have a larger amount of content than Blu-ray will probably ever see. Where as if Blu-ray dies HD DVD will be near a selling point where HD can make a penetration into the DVD market, and since it is carrying the DVD brand name it also will attract older people who tend to shy away from technology they have never heard of, thus the reason why it took 5 years for DVD to over take VHS, and it took VHS nearly the same amount of time to catch on. Face it, HD is dead if HD DVD does die, because Sony and Philips wont drop the price of their technology if there is no competition, and people wont buy a $400 player for a format which hasn’t proven it’s self and has competition from a format which paved the way for high quality home video. In the end something with DVD in its name will win, and Blu-ray will die a nitch market.
February 11th, 2008
how stupid is the comment saying hd movies will die if hd dvd dies. how so?? u got 2 competing format which is confusing the hell out of the consumers, this is the main reason hd movies will die if we dont soon have a universal format.. prices will eventually falls if we have every companies making the same products, this is called competition.. just look at dvd players there dirt cheap now because every electronic companies is making them.. plus hd downloading is around the corner so we better get a universal format soon othewise hd movies will die..
February 11th, 2008
sony sux and the HD DVD will win why ?
simple is cheaper and is more flexible the only diference is the space but …why do I need an 60gb disck for if the HD dvd has out of the box web enabled content thing that sony had left behind
February 11th, 2008
@MarkG
Uhh…. WTF? You pointed out yourself that it took 5 years for DVD to get off the ground and mention that players are expensive. But back at that time what DVD players were $800-1000 or something?
Blu Ray and HD players have come down much more quickly, less than half of what they cost in only ONE year. Also there are Blu Ray players coming out at by the end of the year at about $200. Sony has even mentioned that prices for much of their stuff have come DOWN, they’re now making $20 on each PS3.
Like Maximus mentioned as well there are multiple companies making Blu Ray players so expect competition and cheaper companent costs to drop prices. HD camp only has Toshiba making players and they can only keep the prices down artificially for so long. They’re eating the losses on the players and recent tumbling prices of Flash Media is costing them tons of money too.
Also you forget, HD TV’s are increasing penetration into the U.S. market, so yeah people will want HD players. In fact many of the Deals right now throw in Blu Ray players for free, so again your logic sucks.
In fact having DVD in the name actually ISN’T a good idea at all. Every place I’ve gone to that sells HD-DVD have taken returned disc because they don’t play in standard DVD players.
Don’t think people are actually stupid enough to know the difference? I thought so too, till yesterday I was in a store picking up a DVD and the people standing next to me, one guy says “Man this whole HD DVD thing sucks man, I bought one of those things and it didn’t even play in my player at all”. Wow.
February 11th, 2008
@Sonysux
If it were cheaper then why isn’t the buck passed onto the customer then? If it doesn’t then it’s a moot point. If HD DVD wanted to win they would have ensured their disc were cheaper all the time.
Also even if it’s cheaper why would studio’s stick around if they sell less units? Case in point 300 was outsold 3:1 by Blu Ray so Warner Br. going to look at that and consider they’re selling a 200% more Blu ray so, they end up making more $$$
Plus you know what? Those HD/DVD combo disc are actually MORE expensive then a single layer Blu Ray, because the manufacturing of them processes a lot of defective disc to do the combo.
As for your other misinformed comments, Blu rays are 25 gb for single layer and 50 gb for dual NOT 60 gb. The web enabled thing and other HD DVD format picture in picture can be done on Blu Ray as well, they just need a firmware update.
Make fun of the extra space all you want, but, it saves the companies money. Just look at Harry Potter Blu ray vs. HD from Warner Br. The Blu ray has extra’s in 1080 and what NINE audio tracks with 5.1 (And like 10 subtitle languages) while HD only have extra’s in 480 and THREE audio tracks and 3 subtitle tracks. Warner only has to press one Blu Ray Disc and can have it ready for the whole viewing world while they’ll have to localize HD DVD to how many countries?